What if #Cubs don’t make a move? Joe says that’s OK

The Cubs began Tuesday third in the NL Wild Card race. What if they don’t make a deal by Friday’s Trade Deadline? Manager Joe Maddon is OK with that.

“If you look at the group we have, the big thing there is to get more out of what we have,” Maddon said Tuesday. “There is more. … There’s a lot left in the tank offensively for us in the next two months. If we can get everybody to play offense to the level we’re capable of, there’s a lot of offense.”

The Cubs look at players like Miguel Montero, Javier Baez and Tommy La Stella, who are currently on the disabled list, but close to returning. The in-house acquisitions could be like making a trade, and the Cubs won’t have to give anyone up.

“We didn’t know how much we missed [Chris] Denorfia until he came back [from the DL],” Maddon said. “A lot of times the answers do lie within. The other part I like is that we all fought together to this particular juncture. To remain together and rely on the same group sometimes works to your benefit, too.”

Maddon recalled how shook up the Rays were last year when David Price was traded to the Tigers.

“Offensively, of course, we’d like to have done more to this point, but I know there is more,” he said of the Cubs. “I have a lot of faith in our guys and the biggest thing is when you’re going through a rough moment, like getting swept at home, it really stinks, but it happens. How do you react to that moment is what really matters. How do you stick together? How do you get to the next day?”

— Carrie Muskat

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With Papelbon off of the market (presumably), closer options are still available but possibly more costly. At this point in time, for the 2015 season (and even beyond?) do the Cubs really have a more pressing need than an established closer? Another pitcher putting up quality starts won’t mean much if we keep blowing late inning leads. Thoughts?

This is some hilarious stuff, like Maddon has a choice if no trades are made; this sort of stupid thing does not insult your intelligence? I would say not many late inning leads to blow so why worry about it? In the team defense, it does take time for a team to build confidence in each other but I really think the team is lacking the right pieces in several areas and not what I would have expected after almost 4 years. Have been a Cubs fan for many years and have heard this next year BS so many times it’s crazy but this time it’s different with still so many holes. I read some of the “experts” on this blog with their wisdom but still the same thing going on…Hey, I would love to be wrong here but I don’t see anything really good for 3-5 years ahead and that’s barring any injuries and money put on the table.

Then leave…. You obviously don’t want to understand or see what this fo is doing… So leave … So many holes? We don’t have that many holes right now and whoever thought going into this year that we should be a division contender is a moron. You can’t go from 9th pick to winning a division very often and we shouldn’t expect it. We have made major progress and after the season I’m sure we will have a better understanding of what holes need to be plugged for improvement going into next year. That’s what the fo said they would do and have done each year…. Improve…

No, it does not insult my intelligence because I am intelligent enough to realize that every manager, even the great Joe Maddon at times resorts to diplomacy for the sake of the team and Maddon is being just that, diplomatic. 3-5 years you say? I think the FO is on the verge of spending money this offseason, signing free agents and completing the plan and will boldly make a statement that they (in 2016) now EXPECT to be in the playoffs. Next season we will see a better outfield, better starting #3 & #4 pitchers, a better closer and a better catcher. That’s what I see so I am going to hang around. DCee you may want to consider Petrey10’s advice and come back in your 3-5 year prediction if it bothers you that much. I on the other hand am thoroughly enjoying the slow yet steady improvement made by Theo to our long suffering Cubs.

Aloha Judson, first the team probably thought that Rondon would pick up where he left off from last year as the closer. He was a bright spot last year. Well, did not work out. So, who is left now…Kimbrel from San Diego. I thought the FO could put together a package of players for him and maybe one of their starters but time is running out. They should not give away highly prized players or prospects for short term rentals. Hang in there now. Mahalo!

Judson we aren’t getting a closer …. Sorry just not going to happen. We have the arms in the bullpen for success they just need to pitch better.

Let me add, unless they put the money on the table now!

It`s all about pitching, and we do not have enough. We do not have enough starting pitching (see tonight`s example), and we do not have enough relievers (see last night`s ninth inning). Yes, our offense has underachieved also. Put both those together, and you have an also-ran. When you lose at home to `bottom feeders` like the Phils and Rockies, that should speak volumes. Bob Nightengale makes some intelligent observations about the Cubs in today`s `USA Today,` and in effect, he suggests the Cubs are foolish to give part of the store away before the trade deadline this week to acquire players who may or may not help us get to a `one game` playoff version of `Russian roulette.` Instead, he suggests we would be better served `loading up` over the winter for a serious run at the title in 2016. Bob is very insightful, I suggest, given that he is tasked to analyze all 30 major league teams, and he `nailed` the Cubs` situation in late July of 2015.

Aloha jhosk- exactly. I know Rizzo (I hope I got that right) may have made a prediction at the beginning of the season but realistically and team/organization going through this much re-working was not headed for a WS this year. That is why I put my expectations in check and have said from the get-go of this season, if they play .500 or better that is tremendous. If they get to the playoffs that is “gravy,” as we like to say in the islands or some here in the mainland would say “icing” on the cake. I like you bringing up Kimbrel because he is not a short-term rental. I suggested to fonzie that maybe the FO could put together a package of Fowler-Castro for Kimbrel-Ross. To sweeten the deal the Cubs could say to the Friars that they will cover the salary of Fowler and the remaining of Castro’s for this year. This above trade is predicated on the assumption that the Padres move Upton, thus could use an outfielder and Fowler has been hitting better as of late, maybe they move Venable to to LF. I also think Castro might do better with a change of venue. In return we get a good closer in Kimbrel and a starter in Ross, no prospects/picks given up. I still think the hitting will come around as that takes time. Gosh Bryce Harper was about a .270 hitter his first 3 seasons and in his fourth year it is a breakout as he is batting currently, .330. Kolten Wong is now in his 3rd season batting .275 with 11hrs. His previous years’ averages: .153, .249. Not the best comparable but I do feel that the bats of Bryant-Addison-Soler will pick up along with Rizzo. So, I hope that FO uses much discernment in any move they make as it will inevitably affect the long term outcome. Hope they can pick up the rubber game tomorrow. Mahalo!

Rizzo did not just `predict` the Cubs would win the division in 2015, he `guaranteed` it,k.g. It was at the `Convention` back in January, was it not? I said it at the time, and still feel the same way; I do not like when athletes make `guarantees.` With the notable exception of `Broadway Joe Namath` back in the day vs. the heavily favored Baltimore Colts, `guarantees` rarely work out. As for Craig Kimbrel, Bob Nightengale in that same piece I cited yesterday, suggested the Padres would be foolish not to keep the `closer,` as he`s under team control three years beyond 2015. Aside: here`s another example of baseball being a very perplexing game: the Oakland Athletics last July 31st were the very `best` team in baseball. They are the `worst` team in the AL this July 31st.

He has nailed the Cubs in July in your opinion. There is nothing wrong or incorrect for going after a Cole Hamels or Tyson Ross among others as they would have control for some time with a reasonable salary so, if he failed to mention this he is limited in mindset. No, they are not in the position to rent a player but there are other good opinions available without having to compete in the FA market for everything or loading up all at once which is difficult at best. In addition, there is no concrete indication the FO is prepared to “load up” this off season or any other time as it has not been their MO to date…slow, easy as it goes seems the order of the day here unless Bob has a crystal ball.

I cannot believe any fan would not consider this “good” year just a bonus, we should not be too upset if the Cubs fall short of an UNEXPECTED run at the second wild card spot. I would love to see an run producing outfielder added, a starting pitcher added and a closer added, and a catcher subtracted in order to help us improve our chances of that wild card spot this season. However it is unreasonable to expect all that to happen yet not unreasonable to expect all that to happen prior to the start of the 2016 season. If these issues are not addressed by then I believe there is more reason to be upset with the FO. Until then they have done well by their plan and I hope no rash moves are made by the trade deadline but instead some moves that will carry into next season when the odds of capturing a playoff spot are much improved. FOUR rookies in the starting line up (I’m throwing Soler in there..), Only 2 quality starting pitchers, no closer and a catching situation brought upon by the FO that has handicapped the manager from day one….and all that points to a playoff berth? I don’t think so. It is a pleasant surprise to even be over .500. At this point in the season I would rather see moves made to solidify 2016 rather than to compete with the World beating Giants for an unrealistic shot at the wild card spot. I hate saying that but the recent turn of events have me looking to 2016.

Don’t sit on your high horse when you have nothing but opinion to base anything upon. Here’s the facts; 1) there is not a single sports writer that would not say there is too many holes to be a contender at this point. 2) There is plenty of time for them to finish far from 500 and the current trend points in that direction (many games remaining against the Cards, Giants, Pirates, Royals and Dodgers) and if that happens we should be pleased! 3) Several highly thought of prospects have been sent back down or are not producing as advertised inclusive of Soler, Baez and Russell while even Rizzo has been sucking wind as of late. 4) Unless you have a crystal ball there is simply no way to know if these guys will produce long term. 5) Sports writers have written many times that being so highly dependent upon prospects can have a big drawback should they not come along as hoped because is almost puts them back to square one and even if as planned can take several years. 6) You have no idea what the FO will do now or in the off season, only opinion or what injuries may take place as a matter of everyday occurrence. So please don’t go after a person who comes along with what is seen as it sits with only opinion, high hopes and assumptions because that’s all you have. Let’s not forget many feel Lester may only have 1-2 good years remaining and based upon his on/off performances to date that may have merit. The insult to one’s intelligence was not addressed to Maddon but a silly question to ask in the first place but you couldn’t figure that out could you? Now come back with facts and not “ass” sumptions.

High Horse my ass (ha! get it “ass”??….well maybe you don’t..) You thinking the “stuff” is hilarious IS your opinion, YOUR opinion, fool. I and others are not the only ones offering only opinions on this site, you just joined the club. A team needing time to gain confidence in each other IS your opinion, YOUR opinion, fool.
You THINKING the team lacks several pieces in certain areas again is YOUR opinion, fool. You not seeing anything good for 3-5 years is AGAIN YOUR opinion, fool and goes against your scathing commentary regarding a crystal ball. YOU are the one with a crystal ball no doubt? YOU as well as I have no idea what the FO will do now or in the offseason yet YOU make the absurd comment that you don’t see anything good for 3-5 years? YOU are the Nostradamus. Of course if ANY team throws money on the table things may improve but even YOU can’t know that. Good money can backfire. Sure it is ONLY my opinion the FO will drastically improve this club for next season and that opinion is base on their MO proven as fact over the last few years and again proven this season by the dismissal of Edwin Jackson not to mention the firing of Renteria and the Hiring of Maddon.
I think Petery10’s suggestion nailed it when it comes to the likes of you and others that cannot see the tremendous progress toward a championship team regardless if they succeed or not THIS season…..

Fonzie, seems to me you cannot read and understand; I stated sports writers have written many times regarding not being a contender as of yet with the many holes so it not my opinion but fact (need the links?) and to date they are not so, seems like the proof is in the making…I don’t see Theo talking all is in place, so who’s the fool? A question that leads to an obvious result is stupid or do you just walk around asking people the obvious; if so, I bet they love you at work…just keep showing your intelligence here. 2-3 years is on average the time it takes for rookies to mature and come in to their own so if one counts this year, can you do math? Good money can backfire but so can prospects considering the small percentage that become impact players yearly so if an owner can spend 500 million on renovations over a short period it seems to me putting a winner on the field should be priority…I’ll take good ole Wrigley and a winner any day and I know many others Cub fans would as well. You have no basis for thinking the FO will improve based upon the fact that they really only brought Lester/ Maddon to the table of which is any big long term consequence and Maddon just fell in their lap (happenstance) as they were clearly prepared to go with Rent., unless you want to include Ross! Hammel is just average showing signs of being good at times than dropping off as an MO and Montero is good but maybe the better years behind him, only time will tell. So where is your factual standpoint here? Were here is it only my opinion as it seems most is based upon what is or fact. So just keep on talking here and show the rest your great sport knowledge while you look pretty stupid…fool.

Again…more of your opinion. So What DCee. Opine away….

This is the result of one having no conceptual intelligent reply just uninformed opinion. As Einstein said, everyone has a right to an “informed opinion” but, no one is entitled to uninformed ignorance.

As is your opinion…uninformed. You prove yourself silly yet again and petrey10 is right yet again. I have been guilty of offering opinion alone numerous times and have learned from commentators such as Petrey10 that facts can be very helpful when expressing one’s opinion, I admit I fail more times than not when it comes to facts. Just an opinion is still welcome on this blog and although I have no facts to back up my opinion that you are silly and ignorant of the fine work the FO has done and the time line for a championship caliber team is much sooner than your crystal ball predicted 3-5 years…it is my opinion only that Petrey10 is absolutely point on with his opinion…it may take you 3-5 years to learn what a fact is, based on you thinking you don’t see anything really good for the Cubs for 3-5 years. What team have you been following? Yeah, the links would be good so Petrey10, myself and others can read the writers OPINIONS that you so mistakenly and ignorantly take for FACT. Sure Theo does not publicly state all is in place, because it is not yet all in place but the point you make that the really good is 3-5 years away? You’re welcome to that sorry opinion. I’ll stick with mine, that being the really good can be as close as this next offseason.

lol after rereading all this its actually quite hilarious you try to quote Einstein…. because you aren’t an Einstein yourself…
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I also would love to know….. what do you/did you expect from this FO this year? I’m trying to see DCee side of things here but I don’t see it from any angle. Tell me what you expected and we can talk about it

Dcee you quote sport writers? I would love the links… #2 just cause they write doesn’t mean they aren’t bias or dumbasses.. Facts wouldn’t have bias… Facts are stats … Facts are true indisputable evidence…. Please learn what a fact is and come back… It may very well take u 3-5 years

Numbers under Theo’s leadership – Lost attendance last 4 years compared to previous 4 = 3,256,447 @ and avg.of $77 per = $250,000,000 rounded. If we assumed an avg. increase in attendance based upon a better team by 6,000 per game (has never been that high, avg. 23,000 per game) it would take apprx. 542 games to make this revenue up or 6.6 seasons. We were told the reduced payroll was to build a better team???
Won/Loss last 4 years 279/369, previous 328/320 (2015 based upon 3 Las Vegas computer models considering the remaining schedule).
Payroll last 4 years $400,500,000 rounded, previous 4 $625,680,000 rounded. This is where they made up for the above with little other choice.
Considering Property taxes, interest payments, Wrigley operations, IRS Taxes, Development Spending, Administration, Ballpark Operations, Marketing, Revenue Sharing, and Park Maintenance Est. to be around $162 M per year (based upon 12 available statements). Putting this together based upon revenue (5th highest in MLB @ $300M) there is not mush remaining, barely enough to satisfy the Dept. Service Rule (EBITDA). $162M expenses and $119M payroll = $281M – should they have taken on a Cole Hamels $20M for example they may breach a bank loan covenant based upon viability because I can tell all the Trust does not assure the loans, no smart business person would do that.
Now come on, these numbers are not exact but very close and as you can see a slight variance would not matter a great deal here. Now one can play with the numbers if separate entities are created which they did but at the end of the day the numbers are what they are. There is very good information out there the trust has said no more money, the entities must stand for themselves. With this, where is the “loading up” during the off season many here expect money coming from? It’s easy to see the business plan match up they speak of will take much longer than advertised. Now these are as close to facts as they may come.

Expiring contracts of Fowler and Denorfia totals 12 mill….. currently only 82mill committed for next year not including Arb. So there is plenty of room there to add a SP….. possibly even a Frontline SP like Price….. but add in higher attendance and increased revenue from the completion of the inside of Wrigley which has been estimated at right arounf 25mill itself. On top of that we won’t be able to blow our wad in International signing which is going to cost us HUGE this year. That IFA money alone pays for most of the salary for the Top SP next year. Then 2017 we lose Jackson, Wood, Coghland and Ross off of payroll…… so theres another good chunk. So maybe do a little more research on that before crying…

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Why even bring up the records the last 4 years??? Obviously we all know that its been bad the last 4 years but that’s because we needed a complete rebuild!! How hard is that to comprehend Einstein? Organizations with a strict budget like we have had are not able to just go out and buy a winning team….. That needs to be done by putting money into the draft and scouting for that draft. Also factoring in that you need to cut the fat from payroll over that time so you are allowed to buy the pieces you need to fill the holes when you start to compete again. We are just getting to that point in this rebuild. We have great cheap valuable pieces…. now we can start to fill the holes over a couple/few seasons for sustained success. There is NO QUICK FIX!
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Another thing to factor in is that we are nearing a time where we will be able to capitalize on a TV Deal…. granted that isn’t till 2019 but it still factors into the long term deals you are making now. Cardinals just today got 1 billion plus ownership stake in that TV network… So much for them being small market anymore. That increase alone for the Cubs should be MUCH MUCH more than the Cardinals….. the Dodgers got 8.2 billion………. which is why they spend so much…… because they have unlimited funds basically. I would say the Cubs will be looking in the 4 bill range for their TV deal. So ownership may be just fine with breaking even the next few years till they really rake in the dough on that TV deal. I don’t know but its just another fact you are not looking at.
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Ownership and the FO has been completely transparent on the course of this rebuild. They said it would take some time and they would build through the young guys. They have done that and built the best farm in the league. We have the best lineup of guys under 25 currently by them doing that. Now they need to learn how to produce which is going to take time because Mike Trouts don’t come along often. So this is a learning year…. which you could take the time to learn a little more about baseball and other tidbits like “what is a fact” or “what is an opinion”

Also the average Cubs ticket price has been this…….. 2015= $44.81, 2014=$44.16, 2013=$44.55, 2012=$46.3, 2011=$46.9, 2010=$52.56………………. I don’t know where you get the $77 per person above….. so even your whole scenario in the above is skewed greatly by some number you must be picking out of thin air.
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I also don’t even know what your point is….. I asked for you to tell me what you expect/wanted from the FO this year…. then you throw this out there.

You are right, because they just purchase tickets and sit in their seats. No one buys a beer, hot dog, a hat or anything else genius. The number was taken off an MLB site which evaluated all teams and an average cost at each…great thinker.

Your fan cost is 77 good job …. But what your genius mind doesn’t comprehend is that’s cost to the fan not revenue or net income to the team jackass…. Maybe go run another company into the ground instead of trying to puff your chest about Cubs baseball which you obviously know very little about.

Also the cubs are now valued at 1.2 billion………. thats 42% more than what the Ricketts paid for the Cubs………… you say they have hurt the Cubs so much financially by sucking…. this appreciation in value says the exact opposite…….. maybe your financial analysis is lacking and maybe just maybe ownership and the FO know a whole hell of a lot more about it than you or I. But im sure you won’t agree with that.

Petrey10, OMG….your last 3 comments…beautiful work….well done.

thanks… all that info took was about 30 minutes of research….. everyone here could do that… that why its frustrating when people open there mouth to bash things that in reality when you check the facts and the background whether its stats or some other type of fact it paints a completely different picture.
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we all can have an opinion but that opinion should not be end all be all when facts are presented. Its called learning…. if we all tried it we would be that much better of a fan base.

Hard to argue with that. 30 minutes…still quite a commitment on your part, it shows.

I waiting for all the answers from the guy with all the great work and incorrect comments.

I’m waiting for your worthless point about this fo …. What’s so bad about them again?

Forbes does agree that every team has increased in value but so has the cost of operating them as well. This has nothing to do with operating cost vs. the bottom line unless one sells. One can levy based upon the value but that does nothing for the bottom line…again, a genius here.

Boy I’m glad you brought up a factual list… Forbes 2015 value list… Yes every team does have significant increases…. Looking at it further the Cubs have increased in the last year 13th most…. That’s above average!!! Your way of winning teams with high payroll trying to buy wins yanks and Dodgers are dead last…. Very bottom!!! —– thank you for making my point you financial wizard …. You sir are out of your depth, head back to kiddy pool

So when one pays a little over $900M and it is now worth $1.2B that is 42%? Help me out with that because I need an account like you. And because player contracts expire it means one does not have to replace those players or does it cost to replace them…again a little help here. TV contracts are based and negotiated based upon viewership and with spit MLB teams in Chicago and poor team performance records it may not be as high as you think along with the money you speak of being over a long period, it not just write a check. As for being no quick fix then how do many other teams remain competitive without extensive rebuilding years? The highest attendance numbers posted (and related revenue) were from years they did dive into the FA market genius and were one of the main reasons the price tag was $900M. Well done as Fonzie comments. Wow!

Well genius the Cubs were bought for 845mill…. Here’s how you calculate this…. 1.2b divided by 845mill… That equals 1.42…. Which means it increased by 42%. I knew you had it in you
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You don’t have to replace that money but your argument was where that money was going to come from… I answered and now you feel the need to try to counter with another dumb question… Good job
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Also the years we tried to buy wins are the reason we had to rebuild … Tribune threw money out that put the Cubs in the highest debt point of most MLB teams… Look it up or wait can u? You’re so busy being a financial god how could you take the time to do that ?

I’m waiting on that 42% increase because there is a thing called interest expense which is always added to the overall purchase price over the length of ownership to equate actual profit along with some other costs…it’s an associated cost just to help you out because that money could have been invested elsewhere over the time period. Then we must consider present day dollar value vs. just investing in secure market funds because that money would not just be sitting but invested so what would that profit be vs. owning the Cubs for example determines actual profit…but very nice try.

We aren’t talking about overall profitability…. We are talking appreciation of value …. Which you take current value divided by purchase price to get percentage of change. Value you it how you want but this fo has done nothing but good for the Cubs finances. Everything you have posted is due to a bad team which we have already said things are changing and are going into the competitive years in this rebuild process. How’s buying wins going for yanks and Dodgers …. Lots of championships recently for them. Go buy your own team and run it like a moron

Price to Blue Jays. Is this a rental for Toronto, or more? What do we know? Most of y`all want Price as an option for the Cubs next winter.

I’m hoping it’s just a rental! Also hoping that having Maddon will payoff next season and help Price decide to join him!!!

I didn’t put 30 mins. into the numbers, I had my Jr. accountant do it and right now she in laughing at you guys thinking an MLB teams financials are so easy…just cut and dry! What I put down were 30 years of experience in Banking, Corp President and owner of 3 companies…30 minutes! Now I have been pretty nice about this considering all the non-sense.

Well you and your he acct need to take those 30 min to figure out what you are talking about. Bc you haven’t nailed one fact down here… its ok to learn things .. We all can… Even your high nosed chest thumping self

Also if you are such a profit type guy why would you have your acct run numbers for your post on a blog… Seems pretty wasteful

Am not as impressed with David Price as some of y`all. I`ve seen him `stink it up` many times, including his most recent outing, if not the one prior to that, and I`ve seen him `fail` at the AAA level as well. Also, he surrendered Derek Jeter`s 3,000th hit. I know that because I was in Yankee Stadium that day and had a great view of the dinger drilled into the left field seats that July 9th, 2011 Saturday. { I know those numbers because I`m looking at my ticket from that game as I type.} I am not condemning Price for giving up that historic knock; anyone could have done that. My point is I will not care if Toronto signs David Price long term, and he consequently may not be available to our team. There will be plenty of other `fish in the pond` next winter. Trust me.

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